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Radio New Zealand
February 5, 2000
"Top of the Morning"
(part only)
Presenter (Gary McCormick): Let's
start with the Peter Ellis situation and Peter having come out of jail the
other day, I’m sure most people watched television coverage...
Linda Clark (former TVNZ political editor): I
indeed, well, in fact it's
appropriate we're talking about cult status because Peter Ellis is one of
those convicted criminals that has a kind of cult status in New Zealand. There is this sort of fashion at the moment
to... in some forms of the media actually... sort of crusading journalists
who accept claims of innocence from certain people and Ellis is one of those
who has his friends in the media and have put his case very passionately over
the last seven years while he's been inside.
I mean I don't think any of us are in a position to know right or
wrong. Is he actually... when he says he didn't do it, is he right, is he
wrong? I don't know. I don't think anyone knows. I take my hat off this week though to Roger
McClay, the commissioner for children, because what
he reminded us of was the fact that at the heart of this case is the group of
children who believe they were abused.
Their parents believed they were abused, those children are hurting
and regardless of the rights and wrongs of the case, they are still victims
no matter what... you know whether he did it or not, they believe they were
abused. And I think this talk of
another inquiry and the ongoing campaign to clear his name, it's got... it's
just no end of tears, this story... and I think it's a complicated issue and
New Zealanders often want clear-cut... they want clear-cut cases, they want
black and white, they want goodies and baddies, in this case there isn't a goodie or a
baddie, it's too hard to tell,
Presenter: I was a little bemused by Roger McClay's outburst, I think that’s a fair word to use
because he said... you know let's send a message out to convicted pedophiles
blah, blah, blah, blah, about the children.
Now that was quite... you know that is taking a side,
that is saying that... It's seen to be implying in his case, he
thought that Ellis was guilty in the way he phrased it and I would have
thought that was a little out of the... an unusual thing for a Commissioner
for Children to do. By all means
express concern for children but he seemed to tack onto that, a statement
about his own belief about the case...
Linda Clark: I thought that was okay because he's taking
the... he’s an official... he's an official in an official position, Roger McClay and he is taking the official position and at the
moment on the books, Peter Ellis is a convicted paedophile...
Presenter: Right...
Linda Clark: Now he claims that he has been wrongly convicted and
he is yet to clear his name but he’s been through a number of processes that
the judicial process allows and at every one of those stops he has been found
again to have been a convic... rightly convicted as
a paedophile, so Roger McClay is right, at this
point in time Ellis is a convicted paedophile. He may clear his name in the months and
years to come and he may be right. I
truly don't know. I just... every
story I read about it, I change my mind... but I think McClay
is right in saying that... remember there are kids involved here and let’s
not make a hero or a cult figure of Peter Ellis without remembering that
there are children and victims... that every time his name is mentioned a
shiver goes down the spine of those parents and they try and come to terms
with the fact that he is out of jail.
They still believe he's guilty and they still believe that their
children are being hurt by it.
Presenter: And at the same time I
suppose the nation as a whole has to remember that we have had cases in the
fast where people have been wrongly convicted and we have to be prepared to
be open enough to follow the course of the inquiry wherever it may go?
Linda Clark: Yeah... Absolutely...
Presenter: There’s two sides
to this coin.
Linda Clark: But an open minded... But having an open
minded position means not thinking he's innocent just because some people say
he's innocent but equally not thinking he's guilty just because that's the
official position. An open mind really
is open to all possibilities but at the same time those... we can't expect
the children to have an open mind or their parents to have an open mind
because if you were the parent of one of those kids who felt they'd been hurt
and abused, you would rightly want to protect your child from any further
discussion and opening up of it,
Presenter: Precisely... and it's one of these terrible
dilemmas the country's going to have to sort out. You mentioned crusading journalists, you
seem to be implying there are some people who have stayed on the case and
been a sort of conduit to information...
Linda Clark: It's the follow-on of Watergate. I mean every journalist... I'm a
journalist... every journalist wants the big case... you know wants the big
story that opens up a whole kind of... you know that rights a wrong, that...
you know gives you the profile, gives that story the profile... we've all
done stories that we hoped would be as big as that and I don't blame the
journalists involved... It's an intriguing case and their ongoing interest in
it is understandable, I mean I for one read everything about the Ellis case
too... I'm fascinated by it but I think that crusading journalism has to be
open minded too and you can't just think because you've interviewed Ellis a
couple of times and you've met him and seen the whites of his eyes and
thought he was not a bad fellow, that that automatically mean's that what
he's saying is 100% correct.
Presenter: The... you had your Pat Booth in the case
of Arthur Allan Thomas... you could almost say... I don't know enough about
journalism, not being one but without the persistence of Pat Booth and the
team of people, possibly the Arthur Allan Thomas thing would not have been
resolved in the way it was...
Linda Clark: That's true... that's entirely true. The case in the states at the moment... I
heard the New York writer, Dominic Dunn, being interviewed by Kim Hill a
couple of weeks ago... fantastic interview, he's someone who has persisted
with a case against a Kennedy nephew and that case has now been... you know
25 years later or whatever, has actually been reopened and this guy's been
charged. There is a place for crusading journalism, of course it's vital
actually, but I still think that when you're presenting that information to
the public you do have to still be open to the possibility that you know
right is not on your side.
Presenter: Fair enough, okay.
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