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Allegations of Abuse
in NZ |
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Tea Ropati - League Star accused
of rape |
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NZ Herald The lawyer for former league star
Tea Ropati, Gary Gotlieb, says the police adult sexual abuse unit is out to
make a name for itself. Gotlieb says
that in the 38 years he had been working on rape trials he had seen the law
go "so anti-male it's not funny". Do you think the police are biased
against men? Here is the latest selection of Your Views: (Note, some of the following
comments may have been edited for legal reasons.) Nigel
Hunter Your
kidding me arent you Herald? Can you imagine the bleating if the Police
hadn't taken this to court. It's not the Police's decision if someone is
guilty, it's the courts. They are there to present the facts and let the jury
and court decide. I'm sure it was the Herald that was milking the recent bad
press in relation to cases not going to court in the early 1980s in Rotorua.
I'm sure Gary Gotleib would be most upset if the number of cases going to
court plumetted, no doubt he would make sure he was in the Herald again
saying howing the Police are now deciding what goes to court, nothing to do
with him losing fees of course. James (Auckland) This has
got to be the most stupid 'Your Views' topic I have ever seen. It's not bias,
a complaint was made, it was investigated, it goes through many stages before
reaching a trial and if at any time there was insufficient evidence it would not
have proceeded further - how does that equate to bias against men? Greg
(Auckland) I once
reported a woman who slapped me whilst she was in a drunken state. The police
made me feel as if I was wasting their time and told me to go elsewhere
(another police station to make the report.) If it were me slapping her I
would have been cuffed and charged. Sexism certainly exists and must cease. Aaron
(Auckland) With
polices such as arresting males involving domestic violence situations
regardless of who is the offender, it is bias. When police policy is decided
on gender and not who is the victim and offender then it is bias. When a
woman can attack a man with the knowledge that he and not her will be taken
away how can you not say there isn't significant bias against males! Really
if females demand equal opportunities shouldn't that include all aspects of
life, especially in how the police and justice system treats people? JMH
(Whangarei) I think
it's not just the police but their policies, the government & society who
are biased against men. In this society people seem to automatically think
that we females are always the victim. Us women couldn't possibly be stupid
enought to get drunk etc and have sex with some random guy, we must have been
forced to to do it. That's a load of s***. I'm not saying that rape doesn't
happen, because it does. If I was a juror, I'd be very hesitant to call a man
a rapist when both parties were drunk/high. No one really knows what the
truth is. Not even the 2 involoved as they would have been too drunk to know
what went down. But people believe what they want to believe and usually they
believe the woman beacuse they couldn't possibly have sex with random guys
whilst drunk. It's also not just rape cases that are biased against the male,
custody case are too. I bet heaps of kids have automatically been given to
the mother not the father when the kids would be better off with the father.
How about the fact that there are less and less male teachers around because
people seem to think they are all child abusers? What a load of bulls***! Kiwinut
(Auckland) I don't
believe the Police per se are biased against men, however having been heavily
governed by women, not ladies, has of course influenced the laws. Being so
eager to gather as many 'first in the worlds' rather than making the country
a safe place for everyone seems the recipe they follow. Given comments about
why murders happen lately (Annette King, Minister of Police, on the hot heat
+ person = rationale to murder) is it any wonder we have such a warped
society so quick to label and judge? I think the Police are hard done by with
too little rights of their own. I do think the males of our country have
become acquiescent simply to survive. 'We' have lost common sense and so laws
and charges are being issued out of process and formalities regardless of the
cost and human suffering occurring while everyone not in the hot seat care
less for those suffering. NZ'ers need to become less apathetic and more
proactive in looking after their fellow brothers and sisters & also our
own backyards. Get back your own voice and be heard! Too often now the
minorities are imposing their agenda on the majority. Let's see change at
this years election for the better. Good on ya mate(s). The truth Certainly
not. Any statistic will demonstrate that the majority of violent crime and
sexual assaults are committed by men. To say otherwise is absurd. The media
were certainly biased towards this 'star' and my thoughts and sympathy go to
the victim who had her life turned upside down for 18 months for this biased
result. Squeaker
(Auckland) Men have
always been more likely to commit crime, let's not make the police go down
the PC path over this. Natural instinct will make us assume guilt or
innocence based on peoples appearance, i.e. wearing the prision issue boiler
suit tied around your waste. I hope the so-called victim can live with
attempts to destroy Tea's life. She deserves to be named and shamed for
actions just as Tea has been. Lets hope she faces drug charges. R Murray I think
there is a systemic legal bias for women (positive discrimination) which
results in men being treated as second class citizens. The Police, as agents
of the state, merely enforce this treatment. However, on an individual level,
I feel they often recognise the unfairness and will try to ameliorate it if
they can. JimN
(Wellington) Of course
they are. It's all part of a Police culture and ideology that sees all men as
perpretrators of violence and all women as victims. Challenger Without
doubt Police are biased against men. I sought help from the police after
being assaulted by my children's mother. The police told me to either leave
the station or face charges, I left as it seemed like an impossible
situation. Eventually the incident spiraled into a protection order being
ordered against me based upon false and misleading allegations which caused
me to loose care and contact of our sons. The officers bias and incompetence
that day failed justice and caused major heartache and expense for all
involved. "as expected" there was no consequence for the mothers
perjury or wasted court expense. My case was eventually proved and I now have
full care of my sons with almost no contact from their mother even though I
encourage contact for the boys sake. Thanks for nothing you Police officers
that perpetrated over a year of family court rubbish crippling me to the
point where I was almost unable to fight for my kids any longer. Perhaps my
boys may have become just another statistic had I have given up, left
labelled as a dead beat Dad. Kate
Murphy The poor
men in our society that feel they are discriminated against - "we can't
sit next to a child on a bus", "we can't become a teacher" -
what twaddle! If some of you "male victims" stood up and said no to
men that are the perpetrators of domestic violence, took a stand against the
men that have brought this prejudice on you all the world might be a better
place. Stop blaming women. shauneboy
(dunedin) Ridiculous
comments from some of the contributors, claiming women are equally guilty of
"domestic" violence as men. The reality is that this country has a
problem with male violence generally, and towards women specifically. It is
predominantly women (and children) that end up hospitalised or dead as a
result of domenstic violence. The appalling spate of murders this year have
seen mainly males charged (one or two seem to have a woman involved - along
with a male co-accused) - not because of some anti-male bias, but because it
is men committing these offences. This nonsense that the world is against men
does nothing to help address the problem. I don't know what all the solutions
are, but as men we need to look at how to address issues of the violence of
our gender and bring it to an end, rather than whining that we are somehow
oppressed. yeah
right I don't
know about the police, but statistics for how many rape cases actually reach
a guilty conviction suggest the court system is in favour if the
male/defendant. How is it fair that the defendant can call on character
references but the victim can't? dog and
bird (Waikato) Steve of
Auckland's comment is exactly on the mark. Still, I don't think the laws are
set right, as this country is becoming a puppet state with political
correctness taken to embarrassing extremes. The comment in question about
whether the bias is against men, is a load of bull. I believe that women are
still are unfairly judged and that men e.g. the likes of men in power like
the ex-cops with the horrendous sexual allegations against them are starting
to be justly seen for their true colours but there is still a way to go. Men
and women have to fully realise the powerful danger of alcohol as a drug and
be responsible for themselves. Trudie
(Tauranga) The
Police did their job. As it was clearly explained last night on Close Up by
Mr Beard - they presented the evidence to the courts and it was the courts
that decided to go to trial. The police are damned if they do and damned if
they don't. If this hadn't gone to trial - and the victim went to the media
the Police would be accused of being biased against women. Jjon Considering
most crime is perpetrated by men, it is natural that the police are biased in
cases relating to a woman victim. What seems to be a trend is women basing a
false claim and hoping to rely on bias to find men guilty of something both
parties are responsible for. nick
(Botany Downs) Yes in
some cases. Females are more likely to get off speeding fines and other minor
offences than young males. Even Keel
(Christchurch) I think
we need to be careful, as even this topic board seems to have been hijacked
by a 'is he (the leage player) guilty or not', which has nothing to do with
this topic. How can you even question if we as a society are biased agianst
males, when we (men) can't sit next to children on a plane, are too afraid to
become teachers as we don't want to put ourselves in a position where we'd be
alone with a child, etc, etc. What we need to do is weed out the males who do
abuse, as well as the females who use societies bias against males to their
own benefit. sarah
(whangarei) I've
found police are more lenient on females. A girl can be drunken and
disorderly and be put in a taxi deemed for home but if its a guy they're
straight to the cells. Does this mean there is a different law for men and
women? good kiwi
citizen (Auckland) No I
don't think the Police are biased at all. The whole event highlights how many
people are binge drinkers. Me Again
(Auckland)No. A complaint of a sexual nature was made to Police and they
investigated it. It went to court and it was agreed that there was a case to
answer, so it went to a jury. End of story. TarnZ
(AucklanD) Yup, sure
do. They shoud have named the woman that accused Tea Ropati. That wasn't fair
at all! Johno
(Auckland) The
Police are required to be biased against men. When attending a domestic
violence incident, the Police Best Practice manual requires that they remove
the man from the scene - even though it may be very obvious that he is the
victim, even if it was he that called the police, and to leave any children
in the care of the mother, even though it may be very obvious that she has a
violence problem. Dr Dad
(Hastings) Police
are overwhelmingly biased against men. I can give several examples. Ivan
RobinsThe police have no choice other than to be biased against men. The
alternative is to invite relentless hounding from the media. Even in cases
where a man can afford to properly defend himself and is found not guilty,
the woman's identity still remains secret when it is very much in the public
interest to know the woman's identity, bearing in mind that half of the
public are male and could be at risk from her in the future. We also have the
glaring double standard where intoxication can be taken into account for the
prosecution but not at all for the defence. How unbiased is that? Bernard
Bourke Without
any doubt the police are acting as if they are biased. I suspect that they
are trying to make themselves look good (or better) following the Rotorua
fiasco, but it's a mistake. They should have immediately and strongly
disassociated themselves from the people who were at Rotorua as soon as they
knew of the complaints. As it was they seemed to have been reluctant to do
this - the damage was done then. As it is now they are on the wrong path. PaulS
(Seattle, USA) Unfortunately
for men, if the accusation involves women, kids or sex, in the eyes of the
public and police, you're innocent until proven male! Steve
(Auckland) 'Bias
against men' - what complete rubbish. The Police don't write the laws, they
just enforce them. Since rape is a crime and if somebody makes a complaint of
rape then they will rightly investigate it - they don't determine guilt and
innocence, that's up to the courts. All they need is a reasonable grounds to
believe - and in this case they definitely seem to have had it. The law isn't
open to interpretation - it is what it is. If people have a problem with it
them they should take it up with the government, not the Police. Lisa
(Auckland) 'Unfair'
says that the woman who accused Ropati should be named. Why should she be
named? Just because the verdict was not guilty, it doesn't mean that Ropati
is innocent. All it means is that it couldn't be proved. She is still a
victim regardless of a guilty or not guilty verdict in this case Speculation Appreciating
that the media has been demonising men for decades, even though women can be
just as abusive and vindictive in their own right, and appreciating that your
typical gang-mentality policeman is no genius, I wouldn't be surprised if
there is considerable anti-men bias within the police of which is not fair or
rational. Unfair
(Auckland) In
general, no. The Ropati case highlights however the disparity in the law and
its application. The complainant can say whatever she likes and make
accusations that may or may not be true. Who knows? What we do know is that
Tea Ropati has been accused of serious crime, and found not guilty, but what
we do not know is the identity of the complainant. Surely it makes sense that
if the accused is found not guilty then the identity of the complainant
should be disclosed. That is only fair and just! Other innocent victims this
complainant may attack through the police should know who to be aware of. Anahera Davies
(Pukehina) I think
that's a stupid question - if the Police are investigating a rape on behalf
of a female, then of course they are going to be biased against the men. Good
on the woman for coming forward - good on Louise Nichols for sticking to her
guns all these years. Allan
(Wellington) Extensive
research from Dunedin Longtitudinal study and Dr Ferguson's Christchurch
studies show more domestic violence occurs from women to men than vice versa.
However 95% of protection orders are against men and Police have firm
instructions to "take the man away". Cops on the beat tell of
knowing the guy is the victim but that their instructions are to take him
away and leave her with the children. A Police 10-7 programme last year saw a
man (who had been attacked by his partner) waiting outside on the road for
the Police to arrive. When they came they said they could take him elsewhere,
or they could take her away (if he wanted her charged but then the children
would have to go into CYPS care). What was wrong with Dad caring for the
children? Police policy is biased against men! Neil
(Auckland) If two
people get drunk and have sex, why is it that only the man is held
accountable for his actions? Are men expected to be more responsible than
women when they are drunk? To me, that's bias. Victim?
(Auckland) Not
necessarily against men but not focussed on the truth and in this situation
only on trying to obtain a conviction. I sat through this whole trial to
obtain a non-biased view. The jury got it right no question. The police again
have risen to their level of incompetence. Feminist
Control Freak Yes! Men
are disgusting evil doers and the police are completely justified in any
prejudice against them. Men must be oppressed! Only then will we see equality
of the sexes. Graham
Hansen Yes.
Everything in New Zealand today is anti-male, from the education system,
justice system, government departments and upwards there has been a
deliberate beration of all things male. Judging from past and present results
the female of the species is not much better than their male counterparts
they just hire better liars, oops I mean PR companies. Darryl
Ward (Raumati Beach) There are
many situations in which the police are biased against men, as a result of
having to constantly prove they are not biased against women, especially when
it comes to allegations of domestic violence and sexual abuse, subjects
dominated by radical ideology. Take domestic violence. Even though studies
undertaken by independent bodies such as the highly regarded Dunedin
Longitudinal Study (as opposed to those undertaken by groups with vested
interests) are overwhelmingly consistent in the conclusion that women can be
just as violent as men, the police will generally only arrest a man in a
domestic violence callout, which results in highly skewed statistics. Take
sexual abuse. A woman can have a man charged with serious crime on the basis
of a historic verbal accusation only, and it would appear that the police
would rather charge a man on no evidence than let a possibly guilty one walk
free. The police may have gone some way to improve the way they deal with
women but they have a lot more to do to improve the way they deal with men.
In this current climate of hysteria, no man who has ever even looked at a woman
in his life can now feel safe. murg
(kerikeri) Yes. I've
just read that in the Tea Ropati case the woman's name cannot be released for
'legal reasons'. Aren't we all innocent, both him and her, until proved
guilty ? So why does the man get named before the trial and not the woman? wannabe
nana (Albany) No, they
certainly are not biased against men, the police are there to do a job and in
my opinion they do it well. These so called hotshot lawyers can be pretty
mouthy, after all they have to justify their enormous bills don't they! Mona Lisa
(Auckland) I
definitely do not believe that police are biased against men. What a joke and
it is pretty insensitive and offensive for some people to say that it is,
especially given recent revelations about historical police pack rapes and
cover-ups. This case was however, was extremely shocking. Maybe it is more a
case of the police and the NZ public are biased against sports
"heroes." As for those who blame the woman for getting drunk - now
that is truly sexist and disgusting. Woman have the same right as men do to
go out and enjoy themselves with friends over a few drinks. Most of us do get
a little too drunk from time to time but that is no excuse for us to be
raped. We have equal right to public spaces and bars just like you do and do
not deserve to be raped because of it. Get out of the dark ages and into the
modern world! S V After
sitting in [a different] courtroom for nearly three weeks and listening to Gary
Gotlieb defend a murderer, I know that he will come up with outlandish
defenses to justify his client's actions. It's hard not to be resentful of
that when you're the family of the victims of his clients, but it's his job
to try to get his clients found innocent of whatever they've been charged
with. The defenses I heard were completely ridiculous and the fact that the
jurors didn't fall for it restored my faith in the justice system. The whole
incident from the very beginning to the end also restored my faith in the
police. I believe that by and large, the police are doing the best job they
can. I believe they examine the merit of each case and do not automatically
believe one side over the other. I can never thank them enough for the
excellent work they did in connection with my family's case. They deserve
more respect for the tough job they do. Frustrated
Father (Raumati) It is not
the frontline Police but it is their policy to arrest men and take them away
whenever there is a domestic violence situation. I have heard of a man who
was attacked by his wife who inflicted significant knife wounds. She was the
aggressor but he was arrested and held overnight, receiving only treatement
from the Police doctor. Police policy is that men commit domestic violence
and women are victims. Get real. Eli
(Wellington) I can't
believe you are asking if the police are biased against men. The media's
representation of this case has been one-sided and biased against the victim!
I know the victim and if you knew the truth you would not glorify a person by
posting photos of him and his 'happy family'. The media in New Zealand is
shameful and biased, particularly towards those with prominent friends. Nick
(Sydney) Definitely!
Even more so when the sun and moon are in sycnhronisation. Tree HI
don't think the police are biased against men. And as for the victim, she may
have not asked to be violated but if she's going out to bars, high and drunk,
not caring about her personal safety, she too should take into consideration
her part in the event. And where were her so-called friends? Everybody should
be cautious when going out, especially women. Police are just doing their job
and if Tea Ropati think the cops are biased, so they should be to him, just
because he's a known league player doesn't mean he's above the law. Ben
Richards No, not
at all. It seems pretty clear this person was too drunk to consent to
anything. Unfortunately, it seems that people think unless the person
actively objects then they must be consenting. madarab
(Auckland) I think
many of NZ's laws are bias against men. Not necessarily the police. Chris
(Takapuna) No the
police are not biased against men, and the Ropati case doesn't give any
credence to the idea of police bias. Attila
(Auckland) Well I
wouldn't call it bias. I'd call it prejudice based on lots of experience.
There are lots and lots of loose cannons in this country who go around
thinking they can do as they please with no consideration for others. I think
the police need to be prejudiced. |
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