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Transcripts of Interviews with
child witnesses
Bart
Dogwood aged 6, 1st interview
recorded 14 May 1992
(Names
as used in the book "A City Possessed" )
A He smacked my bum.
Q And he smacked your bum,
yeah?
A Real hard.
Q Real hard. I wonder why he
smacked your bum.
A I can’t remember. I don’t. I
remember he smacked it.
Q Right, so where, did you have
clothes on?
A He pulled down my pants
because I had to get changed.
Q Oh why did you have to get
changed … ?
A Because I done poos in my
bum, that was when I was really really very little.
Q You had done poos?
A Yeah.
Q In your pants?
A Yep.
Q Oh and so you had to get
changed?
A Yep.
Q Right, so, was, um, were you
getting changed by yourself or was, was Peter helping you or what?
A Peter was doing it.
Q Yeah, so he pulled down your
pants?
A Yeah.
Q And then what happened?
A What do you mean what happened?
Q Well, he pulled down, you
went, you were in the toilet with Peter?
A Yeah.
Q And he pulled down your pants
because you had done poos in your pants?
A Yeah.
Q Because you were little?
A Yep.
Q And so did your pants come
right off or just some just a wee way off?
A Just a wee way off.
Q Mm and what was Peter doing?
A Changing me.
Q Changing you, right, and you
said that he smacked your bum?
A Yeah.
Q And he wobbled your penis,
ah, wobbled your dick?
A Yep.
Q Yeah?
A I …
Q Sorry, love, I didn’t hear
that.
A I don’t mind what you call it
but as long as …
Q Yeah, well you call it a dick
so that’s what we call it, okay. Because kids call it all sorts of different
names. Your brother might call it a different name.
A He always calls it dick.
Q He calls it dick too and, um,
and so you don’t remember whether Peter said anything? You don’t remember
that you said anything?
A Neither of us said anything.
Q Right so when he wobbled your
dick, how did he do that, can you explain that to me?
A He just got his hand and
wobbled it side to side.
Q Ah ha and, um, did that feel
like it was an okay thing or not okay?
A It wasn’t okay.
Q It wasn’t okay, so …
A Well now it’s not but then it
tickled.
Q It tickled, yeah. So did you
use to, when you went and did wees in the toilet, did you use to go all by
yourself?
A Yeah, when I was older.
Q Yeah, so when did you, when
you went to the toilet, when did you need help to go when you did wees or
poos?
A Both.
Q Both.
A And that was when I was
young. When I was older I could do both on my own.
Q Right, so did any of the
other teachers ever help you in the toilet?
A Um, no. I can’t remember.
Q Mmm but you remember this,
this time, and so were there any, ever any other times when, when, um, when
things like that happened?
A No, not really. I know this
other guy that left.
Q Yeah, what was his name?
A I think it was [male name]. I
can’t remember.
Q Mmm and did he used to be a
teacher there too?
A Yeah he, he went away for
same thing as Peter.
Q Did he, oh. And um did you
like [male name]?
A Yep.
Q Yeah.
A I didn’t even know he did
that.
Q Right, so how do you know
that he did the same thing as Peter?
A Cos my mum and dad told me.
Q Oh right. So who was the very
first person that you told about this wobbling your pen, your, um, dick?
A I didn’t tell anyone.
Q Not at the time?
A No.
Q No, but when you were older?
A When I was at school I told
Mum and Dad.
Q Yeah. Who was the very first
person that you told?
A [Female name].
Q Yeah, you tell anyone else
before that?
A No, I only told my, um,
brothers.
Q You told your brother,
brothers or brother?
A Brothers.
Q Brothers. So which brothers
did you tell?
A Um, I only told …
Q Mmm and then you told Mum and
Dad?
A Yep.
Q Mmm, okay, well. Was there
one of these in the toilets?
A Yeah.
Q Now you can’t remember how
many toilets there was?
A No.
Q No, okay, what I need you to
do … is here’s the toilet. Whereabouts, can you remember where the hand-basin
was?
A It depends where the room
was.
Q Oh, right, so we’ll just say
that this is the toilet, okay, and we’ll put the hand-basin here or
something, so did the toilet have …
A How about if I was there.
There was the wall … it would be out of the room.
Q Okay, so the toilet had a
wall there?
A Yeah and.
Q Yeah.
A The basin was just about
there.
Q And did the toilet have a
door on it?
A Yeah.
Q Yeah, so, when, um.
A And it had um … It had a lock
on it as well but I never locked it.
Q Right so when Peter was, um,
in the toilet with you that time, was the door open or shut?
A He I didn’t go in there,
he’d, there was this board and it had something like you put babies on
because I was just a baby then and he put me on there and then changed me.
Q Oh where was the board?
A Oh it was about that tall and
it was about there.
Q And was it near the toilet?
A Yeah.
Q Mm hmm. And so can you
remember whether the door was open the toilet door was open or shut?
A Oh, well, I can’t remember.
Q So he’s … let’s say this is
the board. We haven’t got, oh, we use the rubber, whereabouts was the board
that you stood on?
A I didn’t stand on it. The
board was about that tall.
Q Yeah.
A And I was down there.
Q Right so when, um, when he
wobbled your dick and smacked your bottom where were you standing exactly?
A I was standing, I was, I was
… when he smacked my bottom and he, and he wobbled my, um, dick, oh, he
wobbled my thing when I was on there.
Q Right so you weren’t in the
toilet?
A No.
Q You were outside the toilet
but you were in, where all the toilets are, that part of the crèche where the
toilets are?
A Yeah, what are you … yeah, I
was in the toilets.
Q Yeah but not right in the
toilet?
A No.
Q Yeah, okay, so choose
somebody here to be you, choose somebody, one of these people to be …
A They’re all ladies.
Q No they’re not.
A Oh, no.
Q We’ll find a boy.
A But all the boys got a foot
taken off.
Q Yes, they’re getting a bit
messy, aren’t they. Well what about, is there anyone there that we can just
say might be you just so you can show me? Does that look like a you, sort of?
A No …
Q Right, can you find someone
to be Peter?
A Yeah, no you.
Q Why did you pick that one?
A I didn’t even pick it. You
find it.
Q You choose someone to be
Peter.
A You. I don’t want to.
Q You don’t want to. All right,
well, you need to choose someone who’s bigger than you, don’t we. So let’s
see, um, okay, well, we’ll choose that one there. So can you show me using
this as … and this as Peter? How were you standing when he wobbled your dick?
Well, were you standing or sitting?
A No, I was I was lying on
there.
Q Sorry.
A I was lying on there.
Q You were lying on the, on
that?
A Board.
Q Board.
A Yeah, it was about that high
and I was lying on the edge of it.
Q Right, so you were lying on
the board when he, when he, um, wobbled your dick and so where was Peter? Was
he standing or sitting or what?
A He was standing.
Q Yeah and, um, and he took
your pants off?
A Oh, yeah, he only pulled them
down to about there.
Q Pulled your pants down to
there and that and then what happened next?
A Oh.
Q Pulled your pants down to
about there and then what happened?
A And he pulled it there.
Q Yeah.
A And he, and then he, um,
wobbled my dick and then he, um, changed me and then he brought me back into
the crèche.
Q Right so he wobbled your dick
and then he changed you and then he brought you back into the crèche. And whereabouts
was it he smacked your bottom?
A In the toilets but that was
another time.
Q That was another time. Oh,
okay.
A … because when I, um, when I
did go in there.
Q Ah ha, right, so was it the
same day or a different day?
A It was a different day, but
when he smacked my bottom I felt, yeah, I was still in there.
Q Mm hmm, so when he wobbled
your dick you were lying like that and he had taken your pants down.
A … I was going like that.
Q Mmm … take your finger out of
your mouth and you were lying like that and he took your pants down to about
there and wobbled your dick and then changed your pants.
A And then he.
Q And then took, you went back
out to the crèche.
A Yeah and then another day
smacked my bum.
Q Another day smacked your bum
and the day he smacked your bum where were you?
A In the toilets.
Q So were you, show me where
you were.
A On there again.
Q On there again and tell me
how that happened.
A What do you mean? How that
happened?
Q Well, was it, were you lying
the same way?
…
A Mmm there.
Q In the middle?
A Down there.
Q Point to the picture.
A Down there, smacked it there.
Q Right in the middle sort of
by where your poos hole is?
A Mmm, he smacked it right
there.
Q Mm hmm and it was a hard smack?
A Yeah.
Q And what happened first? Was
it the wobbling your dick from side to side or the smack, what happened
first?
A Um, wobbling.
Q Wobbling your dick?
A Yeah.
Q And how long after that
happened did this smack, did the smack bum happen? Was it a short time after
or a long time after?
A I think it happened, both
happened the same day.
Q You think it might have
happened both the same day, yeah. Are you not too sure about that or are you
sure about that or what?
A I’m sure about it.
Q Yeah, it might have both
happened the same day but different times.
A Yep, it did happen, both, it
did happen …
Q Well do you think there’s
anything else … that that you need to tell me about crèche and about Peter?
A No.
Q So that’s the things that you
told … too, aye?
A Yep.
Q Mmm, okay, so you think
that’s absolutely everything about the things you told [name] and Mum about
Peter and the crèche. Can you remember any other things happening that you
didn’t like?
A There was no other things
anyway.
Q There was no other things?
A Nope.
Q Okay, all right, well I think
that’s all I need to ask you then.
A I’ll finish this off at home.
Q Yeah you can take it home and
finish it off. Now is there anything else that, um, you can’t think of
anything else?
A No.
Q Okay.
A There was this adult in the
movie and he was called Peter.
Q Right.
A Peter Pan.
Q Yeah and he used to fly.
A He did learn to fly.
Q Yeah and what made him learn
to fly?
A A happy feeling.
Q A happy thought, a happy
feeling, yeah.
A Yeah, a happy thought.
Q Mmm and what did you think
about the guys on the skateboard?
A What do you mean the guys on
the skateboard?
Q On the skateboard when they
were, when they were having their big sort of big fish and they were going up
and down and Peter got on the skateboard.
A Oh, yeah, yeah, that was
cool.
Q It was, wasn’t it, and the
guy with the big mohawk hairdo.
A Yeah he had, I think, he got
left on the pirate ship.
Q Mmm mmm. Hey, I just thought
of one more question that might, um, you might be able to know. When he
wobbled your dick.
A Mmm.
Q How many times did it wobble
from side to side do you think?
A Um, five.
Q Mm hmm, okay. All right, it’s
now 11.34 and we’ve finished our talk.
A Mmm. This felt doesn’t work.
Q No, some of them are a bit
funny and who did you go and see Hook with?
A My brother …
Q Yeah and did he like it?
A Yep.
Q Yeah, I loved it. I laughed
and laughed it was great.
A It was a bit funny.
Q Yeah, was there any sad bits
in it?
A Yeah.
Q Yeah, what were the sad bits?
A When, um, you know, Peter
Pan, when he ran away when he’s a baby.
Q Yeah.
A He was lying down in the
rain.
Q Yeah.
A And he was crying.
Q And Tinkerbell had to come
and take him away didn’t she.
A Who was that?
Q Tinkerbell.
A Who’s that?
Q The fairy.
A Yeah.
Q The fairy lady.
A I didn’t even know her name.
Q Tinkerbell.
A How do you know?
Q Because I used to read Peter
Pan when I was a little girl so I know that story, and Captain Hook, he was
such a silly, wasn’t he?
A Yeah he got ate.
Q Yeah.
A He got aten up by that
alligator.
Q Yeah, yeah, he was such a
silly and mean.
A Hey, you know Peter Pan’s.
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