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Transcripts of Interviews with
child witnesses
Bart
Dogwood aged 6, 3rd interview
recorded 5 Aug 1992
(Names
as used in the book "A City Possessed" )
Q And were there any other
adults at that building with the library and the trap door?
A Yeah, 20 of his friends,
Spike and Bolderhead.
Q Bolderhead and Spike.
A Yeah, but that wasn’t their
real name, I knew, I know that.
Q How did?
A Because they were, they were
just probably using it.
Q How do you know that?
A They, well, Bold, I never
heard a name called Bolderhead before.
Q Mmm, so … what did, what sort
of clothes did his friends wear?
A Oh, black clothes.
Q Yeah. What sort of, were they
wearing shorts or trousers or what sort of clothes?
A They were wearing black pull
down with the, with white tie and black shoes.
Q Mm hmm. And anything on their
heads or not?
A Oh, black hats.
Q Were they wearing hats or
not?
A Yep.
Q So they were wearing all
black with a white tie.
A Mmm.
Q And how many? There were
about 20, you thought, so there were quite a few.
A And one of them was scratched
fucken shit on their car with a knife, with a knife there and, um, a thing
that you scrape things off with.
Q Yeah, a scraper.
A Yeah.
Q What do you use a scraper,
what sort of things do you scrape with that thing. Food or paint or?
A Oh, you, you’s can, you’re
s’posed … scrape putty off.
Q Oh, okay.
A From the windows …
Q Yep, so he scraped.
A Then he used that and the
knife in his hands.
Q So what made him write,
scratch fucken shit on his car?
A I don’t know I just saw it on
there.
Q Mmm, so who’s car was it.
A One of Peter’s friend’s cars,
Spike.
Q What, what did it look,
Spike?
A Yeah it was a black car,
Toyota Corona.
Q A black, a black car.
A Yeah and it was a Toyota
Corona.
Q How do you know it was Toyota
Corona?
A Because I saw it written
down.
Q What colour was the inside of
the car do you know?
A Oh, grey.
Q Are you sure about that or?
A Yeah, grey, I think it was
furry grey.
Q Furry grey. And it was black?
A …
Q So where did you go in that
car?
A Oh, I don’t go anywhere, I
just saw it.
Q Okay, so there was these,
these other people with black suits. So were they men or women?
A Um, there was women, two
women.
Q Two women. What did the two
women look like, what sort of clothes did they wear?
A They were black, they were
all in white.
Q All in white. And what did
they do?
A They were all in white with a
black tie.
Q With a black tie.
A They were all in white with a
black tie.
Q And what did they do?
A What did they do?
Q The women.
A The two women, oh, oh, well,
the bad, probably, the bad things that other children that they didn’t do any
bad things to me.
Q Okay. So did they say
anything to the children or not? Did they say anything to you?
A No, because they didn’t hurt
me … Peter tried to threaten me he’d drop me down a ladder.
Q Yeah, you told me that one
yesterday.
A Yeah.
Q Yeah, so, um, so there were
other people dressed in black and white clothes at this building.
A Yeah.
Q And one of them was called
Spike and and Spike had a black car. What were the people doing there?
A Um, they were hurting kids.
Q What did they do to hurt
kids?
A I don’t know. They were
hurting kids except I don’t know what they did because I wasn’t around.
Q Right.
A There’s two things for this …
in that, that.
Q Yeah.
A … and then … [playing with
toys].
Q Yeah, then it’s cooked. Hey …
A Mmm.
Q When you were at this
building with the trap door did you get hurt there or not?
A Yep.
Q What hurt, who hurt you
there?
A Oh, Peter.
Q Mmm, did anybody else hurt
you there?
A Did anybody else hurt me
there?
Q At the at the trap door
building.
A Oh, someone’s already down at
the trap door.
Q Who was that?
A Oh, one woman.
Q What was she doing?
A She was trying to kick me.
Q Where did she kick?
A Kick and punch me? Yeah she …
me and she did.
Q She what?
A She was trying to kick and
punch me.
Q Mmm and, a, so, um, so … Um,
what, what did Peter do to hurt you at the trap door building? Which room did
he hurt you in?
A Which room did he hurt me?
Um, why, one of the rooms where no one was in on the second floor.
Q What did he do to you, to
hurt you?
A What did he do to hurt me?
Oh, well, he kicked me and punched me and stuck a, stuck a, stuck a sharp
stick up my bum.
Q Which part of your bum did
the stick go?
A In the, the poos hole.
Q What did it feel like on your
poo hole?
A It feeled, made it bleed.
Q Where did the blood go?
A On the floor and he done and
he cleaned it up and he done that five times and he stuck a burning piece of
paper up my bum five times so that means it bleed, um, 10 times.
Q And who was there when he
stuck a stick up your bum?
A Um, his mother. No, his
friend stuck this, um, um, burning paper and Peter.
Q Who did the burning paper?
A Um, his friends and he, and
so his friends, on the sharp stick and the burning paper, and Peter and his
mum were taking photos and while my burn was bleeding they were laughing.
Q What did you feel like?
A Just sad because it wasn’t
funny at all.
Q Did, did the blood go
anywhere else or not?
A No … on the flippen floor …
Q There were, there what?
A There were …
Q Oh, okay, what did the stick
look like?
A Oh, it was a sharp stick,
about as sharp as a knife.
Q Where did it come from?
A Pardon.
Q Where did the stick come
from?
A It was in some like a
treasure box with all the paper and it was, it was like it was a treasure box
and, um, that they made out of wood and they, and they put about, oh, God
knows, 20 pieces of paper in that box and they put a lighter and, um, about
five sharp sticks and then they shut the thing and locked it.
…
Q Did anything else make your
bum bleed or not?
A Did anything else made my bum
bleed? Only the burning paper and the stick.
Q Only the burning paper and
the stick made your bum … so did Mummy know that your bum had been bleeding
or not?
A Yeah, I’ve already told her.
Q Right.
A And they tied me up.
Q They tied you up. Where did,
when, would they tie you up.
A In the dark room in the
building.
Q Mmm and who tied you up?
A Peter.
Q What?
A Peter and he made me eat some
pills and I went to the hospital in the restaurant.
Q Yeah, what happened after you
ate the pills?
A I was asleep.
Q Mmm and then what happened
then?
A So then, what happened then?
Um, then what happened? I just feel asleep and I woke up and I felt all
tired.
Q Right, so when you woke up,
where, whereabouts were you when you woke up?
A Whereabouts was I when I woke
up? … They tied me up on the bed like that.
Q Mmm. Whereabouts were you
when you woke up?
A Ah, I was still against … and
the other time I was still lying on the bed tied up and then.
Q I see.
A And he even tried to tip the
bed over …
Q Okay and come back over here
cos I need to know exactly what happened. When, um, when he tied you up?
A Mmm.
Q You were in the dark room.
What did he tie you up to?
A A log.
Q And what happened after he
tied you up?
A He left me there for half an
hour and went to his mother’s house on the hill.
Q Was there, were there other
kids there or not when he tied you up, where were they?
A Yep [name] and [name] and [name]
were tied up.
Q Were they?
A [Name] too.
Q At the same time or at
different times?
A Same time.
Q So you were, were you all
tied up together in the same room?
A Yep.
Q Is that right?
A Yep, ah ha.
Q And did anything happen?
A …
Q What did you feel like when
you were tied up?
A What did I feel like when I
was tied up? I thought that they would never come back.
Q Mm hmm and did.
A To tell the truth.
Q Did you kids, what did you
kids, did you kids talk to each other when you were tied up or not?
A They were, we were just
lying, yeah we talked.
Q What did you say?
A Oh, tell Peter’s dumb.
Q Mm hmm.
A And how we don’t like, no not
that Peter’s dumb, well how we don’t like him.
…
Q And, ah, so you know when you
had to take pills and you went to a hospital and a restaurant? Whereabouts
did you take the pills?
A In my mouth.
Q And who gave them to you to
put in your mouth?
A Peter’s mum.
Q Where did she get them from?
A She probably brought them from
a shop.
Q What did the pills taste
like?
A Yucky.
Q Yeah what colour, what did
they come out of?
A A packet.
Q And what?
A I can’t I didn’t read the
packet, it looked like.
Q Right.
A That it was, it was one of
those packets, it would be in places … and there was little round holes that
you have to poke in these pills and that.
Q Oh okay and the pills?
A One of those ones, mmm, I
don’t know, she got them from, she probably got them from the shop but I just
saw her take, she had them already cos I just saw her take them out of her
bag.
Q Okay, and, um, what would
those pills, has, has, has Peter’s mother ever given you anything else to
take before or not?
A Has Peter’s mother ever given
us anything else to take?
Q To put in your mouth.
A Oh, poisonous drug.
Q A poisonous drug?
A And that was a poisonous
drink. She even tried to make us get drunk on beer, tried to make us drink
lots and lots of beer.
Q Mmm. Whereabouts did she make
you do, try and make you do that?
A At Peter’s friend’s house, at
his drawing house.
Q Mm hmm and, um, ah, you know
what drugs are. Well, they’re poisonous things, aren’t they?
A Mmm drugs can make you sick.
Q Yeah.
A Cos if you drink them you’ll
get drunk is a bit like drugs.
Q And, and how else do people
give drugs?
A Hey, this can be a horse.
Q Yeah. Did, um, you know how
the, he had a sharp stick up your bum.
A Yeah.
Q Could be a horse, couldn’t
he. This could be a big horse. Well you know how that sharp stick went up
your bum? Have you had any more pointy things on your skin before or not?
Have you had any more sharp things go on your skin before or not?
A Um, only pointy, pointy
things like this, but I don’t know what they’re for. They’re pointy like
this, except I don’t know what they’re called.
Q What was that for?
A Oh, it was to make you sick
probably.
Q Who gave you that? What, what
are you talking about?
A Peter gave me a, he even
tried to stick a ladder up my bum.
Q And did that really happen or
not?
A No.
Q It didn’t really happen?
A I didn’t want to. Hey, this,
this could be some bouncing on, um, um, one that it’s tale like a reading a
story…
Q Yeah now have you ever been
to hospital before?
A Yeah, but, yeah, but that’s
for other things.
Q Right.
A …
Q So what happened when you
went to hospital with Peter, what did you go there for?
A We went in a different room
and he just hurt me.
Q What did he do to you?
A He got some other pills that
you take when you’re not sick but when you’re sitting just he just made us
eat them.
Q Mmm and where did that hurt
you? How did that hurt you, eating the pills?
A How did it hurt me?
Q Yeah how did that hurt you?
A Well, it hurt me a lot. It
hurt me inside and it hurt my throat because it was quite small, it was a,
was naughty drug.
Q Has, has Peter given you any
other things that are naughty? He’s given you pills, he, is he, umm, any
other things that have made you feel sleepy?
A Any other things that have
made?
Q He’s given you pills and … ?
A Oh, well, he, he put a needle
in my hand.
Q Where did he do that?
A In that hospital.
Q Show me how he did that.
A Well he just went like that.
Say, say it that’s needle and he went like that.
Q Who did that to you?
A Um, Peter would just went
like that.
Q Mmm. How many needles did he
put in your hands? How many times did he do that to you?
A Oh about twice.
Q And where did he get the
needle from?
A Where did he get the needle
from? Oh he just had a needle.
Q Did someone at the hosp?
A Cos a man gave it to him
probably stole it.
Q And wa, where, which room did
the needle go into your hand?
A There was, there wasn’t … it
happened at Peter’s house.
Q Oh, it happened at Peter’s
house, the needle in your hand?
A Yeah … just two…
Q And what came out of the
needle?
A Um, I couldn’t really see
because there was things stuck in me.
Q What colour was it?
A Um, wha, yes, it made me go
to sleep.
Q Did it?
A Yep, cos he put it in my hand
and then it made me go to sleep.
Q And has any other, what did
it feel like on your hand, the needle?
A It felt, it hurt when he was
putting it in and then he put the lights off and then he put the needle …
Q Yeah.
A And then he took the needle
out.
Q And did any other kids have a
needle in their hand or not?
A Yeah.
Q How do you know?
A Cos I saw them.
Q Mmm, who did you see him do
it to?
A [Male name] and [male name].
Q Anyone else?
A [Male name] and the other
one.
Q Yeah.
A The other one what.
Q [Male name] and [male name],
a girl or boy?
A And [female name], that’s the
one I was trying to think of.
Q Right.
A I couldn’t remember her name.
Q Okay. So how many times did
you see Peter put needles in kids’ hands?
A How many times did I see
Peter put needles in kids? Well about twice?
Q Mm hmm, same as what happened
to you about, is that right?
A Yep.
Q And who else was there when
he put a needle in your hand? Any big people there or not?
A Yeah, his friends look took
photos and laughing as usual.
…
Q So whose vaginas have you
seen before.
A I’ve seen Mum’s when she’s
getting changed.
Q Yeah.
A I quite often see hers when
she’s getting changed.
Q When she’s getting changed,
yeah. Have you seen any other big woman’s vaginas before?
A Oh, yeah, two of the ladies,
ones that were there.
Q What were they doing with
their vagina?
A Oh they were just pulled
their pants down to show us for some stupid reason.
Q And, um, when they showed,
what did they do after they had showed you, what did they show you they could
do with their vagina?
A Clever tricks.
Q Clever tricks?
A Yeah.
Q What did they, what were the
clever tricks?
A Oh tricks that I can’t
remember.
Q Could you show me with the
doll? Get this doll over here. Show me with this doll what they, the tricks
they did with their vaginas.
A There they, oh it wasn’t
really tricks, they smack it, they punch it.
Q Who, who?
A They got kick it. They could
kick it like that, it was quite amazing. They were going to use it, you could
to, they could go like that.
Q Right.
A …
Q Mm hmm. What what col, what
did their vagina’s look like?
A What?
Q The two women.
A Oh like that.
Q Yeah.
A It was like a big lion, like.
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