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Transcripts of Interviews with
child witnesses
Kari
Lacebark aged 6,
4th interview recorded 27 Mar 1992
(Names as used
in the book "A City Possessed"
)
Q Okay, right,. Now today what
I’d like us to do is to play with the wee toys down here and, um, I know that
you’ve been, um, to some places with Peter. Where are all the places that
you’ve been with him?
A Been to the beach, He showed
us a big fish and he, and it had a little thing on its back.
Q Did it?
A And he tried to push us in.
Q Whereabouts was that?
A Oh it was on a big … at the
beach.
Q Oh, it was a big what?
A A big rail on the beach.
Q A big what?
A A big rail on the beach.
Q Oh, a big rail on the beach.
A Yeah.
Q Do you know which beach it
was? Woops, it’s all right, it’s just the clock. Which beach was it that you
went to with Peter?
A Sumner.
Q Right and who went with you?
A Just Peter.
Q And who else?
A Nobody else.
Q Just you and, just … and
Peter at the beach?
A Yep and some more kids but I
can’t remember their names.
Q Okay and where were, was
this, was this, where were the other teachers?
A At the crèche.
Q Oh, right, So who knows you
were at the beach?
A Ah, I don’t know.
Q Okay.
A Peter took us … Peter hasn’t
got a flash car
Q Hasn’t he? What colour car
has he got?
A Not really good cars in here.
Q What colour car has he got?
A Um, he has a white one like
this.
Q Does he? Where does he keep
his car?
A He keeps it in the garage.
Q Which garage?
A His own garage. I don’t know
where his garage is. Now shall we make up a jail for him?
Q Make up a jail for Peter?
A Yeah.
Q Well, where else has he taken
you to before?
A Take us? I think he took us
to this place, um, where a big fish, Willowbank, Willowbank.
Q Willowbank, yep,. That’s a
good place for kids, isn’t it? I haven’t been there but I hear it is a good
place for kids.
A Yep, I’ve been there.
Q Yeah.
A It’s quite really good.
Q Is it?
A Um. there’s a lion.
Q Ooh.
A Don’t be scared of it,
[female name].
Q Okay, it’s probably in a
cage, is it?
A Yeah.
Q Yeah.
A All things are in cages.
Q Yeah.
A But not the fish, of course.
Q No, because they’re in the
water, aren’t they?
A Yep, now I’ll just have to
get the beds ready and the jail ready and stuff. Should Peter have an empty
jail?
Q What do you think?
A I think he should have a bit
of furniture.
Q A bit of furniture, okay.
A But he was really bad. When
will it be decided?
Q What?
A Um, for Peter to go to jail
or not.
Q Um, I don’t know. That’s up
to [male name]. Okay now … um, where else have you been with Peter?
A Nowhere else. Just ever go to
Willowbank.
Q Because, um, I think you’ve
told that you have been to his house before.
A Yeah.
Q Okay, what I’d like to do is
to make Peter’s house?
A You make Peter’s house and I
make my house.
Q No, you make, how about we
made. I think we made both houses last time, didn’t we?
A Yes.
Q Yeah.
A Oh can, Pet, I want us to,
um, let’s take all the furniture out and then we can decide. Hey, I left all
my leaf clovers in the post.
Q Oh, did you?
A Yes.
Q So, um, who lives in Peter’s
house?
A Oh, he lives by himself.
Q Right and does he have some
friends?
A Um, of course, he does. Yes,
lots of friends, bad friends. His family doesn’t like him though.
Q How do you know that?
A Because Mummy telled me.
Q Okay so … um, what about his
bad friends? What sort of people are they? Are they men or women?
A Men and women.
Q And how do you know he’s got
bad friends? Have you met his friends before or not?
A Yes, I have.
Q Where did you meet his
friends?
A Um, at his house.
Q Yeah and what was his
friends’ names?
A Can’t remember.
Q Oh and what were they doing
when you went there, his friends?
A They were all showing the
penis and the gina.
Q They were showing their penis
and vagina?
A Yeah.
Q Okay right now, [K], let’s
make Peter’s house. Show me where that happened, where you saw the penis and
the vaginas at Peter’s house.
A Um, can I put Peter at this
wee table.
Q Yep.
A Oh, let’s not give Peter a
big house. I don’t have all this stuff.
Q Okay, well we’ll just make
Peter’s house and then we can make your house afterwards.
A Peter does … he has a
cupboard.
Q Yep.
A A chair, um, a couch.
Q Yeah.
A And that’s where the jail
could be and this.
Q Okay, now just make Peter’s
house, where you saw his friends doing that stuff.
A They’re all his friends.
Q Okay, what are their names?
Do you know the names of his friends?
A Yes the girls. One of the
girls’ name [female name] and one of the girls’ name [female name]. Two girls
and two boys. One boy’s name Peter and one of the boys names [male name] and
[male name].
Q And um …
A Yeah.
Q When you, whose penis did you
see at Peter’s house?
A [Male name]’s.
Q And is he a big man or a boy?
A A big man.
Q And what was he doing with
his penis?
A I’ll just sit here. He was
just teasing us with it.
[Later in the interview, when the interviewer
shows K an anatomically correct doll, it becomes clear that K has never seen
pubic hair, but the interviewer was undeterred.]
Q What’s that?
A I don’t know, that black
thing?
Q Yeah, what’s the black thing?
A I don’t know.
Q Okay.
A What is it?
Q Have you ever seen that
before on a?
A No.
Q Near a penis?
A No. What is it?
Q What do you think it is?
A I don’t know.
Q Do mummies and daddies have
that stuff or not?
A No, what’s this? It’s all on
it. What is it?
Q Well, it’s like, you know
what mummies and daddies have on their penises and vaginas.
A My mum and dad don’t have one
or my mum or my daddies, or [male name].
Q Have you seen your mum and
dad’s, have you seen your dad’s penis before?
A Yeah, I’m not scared of it.
Q No.
A Because that’s my dad.
Q Right.
A Where’s the bottle?
Q Here, I don’t know. Is it not
there?
A No.
Q Here, I’ll take that off for
you if you like.
A Yes, please.
Q Great.
A And I’ll get.
Q Okay, [K], now look.
A Oh, a baby has it.
Q Show me with this doll how
the man teased you with his penis. What did he do?
A Oh, I don’t want to do that.
Q Just show me.
A Like that [indicates with
dolls].
Q And what was his name?
A [Male name] but this is a
nice boy, okay.
Q So, um, so Peter’s done that
to you before?
A Yeah.
Q And [male name]’s done that
to you before.
A Yep, pretend they’re playing
in the bath and they are a little baby, okay.
Q How many, has anyone else
done that to you before … or not?
A No.
Q Okay. What did it feel like
when [male name] did it? Not very nice you said.
A No.
Q What did it feel like on you?
A Not very nice. Now they’re in
the big one.
Q Where were [male name]’s
clothes when he did that?
A Just here.
Q Were they on or off?
A Off.
Q They were off?
A Yeah.
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