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Page 5 - Further Reaction to Not Guilty Verdict

 




Sunday Star Times
March 4 2007

Rickards - the interview
by Miriyana Alexander


FREE MAN: Clint Rickards with daughter Keely after last week's high court trial

 

 

After 10 not guilty verdicts, Clint Rickards is a free man. But for many New Zealanders, his reputation is forever tainted by the accusation that he is a rapist. In a series of interviews with the Sunday Star-Times that began last year, Rickards speaks exclusively of the fear he felt at the prospect of jail, the price his family has paid, and the fury he feels towards his original accuser, Louise Nicholas. By Miriyana Alexander.

Clinton John Tukotahi Rickards stood in the cells at the Auckland High Court and all around him the chant reverberated: "Rick-ards, Rick-ards, rap-ist, rap-ist."

The prisoners mocked the police assistant commissioner for three long, tense weeks during the Louise Nicholas rape trial last March. He knew their taunts would be nothing compared to the treatment he'd face in jail. He knew he'd be a target for countless criminals desperate to settle scores. He knew they'd probably try to kill him.

He thought the worst, expected to go to jail. "I had prepared myself physically and mentally for jail. I was fit like nobody's business. I wasn't going to be humiliated by anyone in there."

But now, two trials and 10 "not guilty" verdicts later, Rickards will not have to find out how he would have survived on the inside. A free man? Yes, but at 46 his reputation is in tatters and he may never wear the police uniform again. Rick-ards, Rick-ards.

Clint Rickards was destined to be New Zealand's top cop until he found himself on the wrong side of the law.

In January 2004 Rotorua woman Louise Nicholas went public to accuse the Auckland district police commander, and former officers Bob Schollum and Brad Shipton, of raping her almost 20 years earlier. As a result of the police investigation into her allegations, the trio were also charged with kidnapping and indecently assaulting a 16-year-old girl in Rotorua in the early 1980s.

Three men might have been in the dock, but most of the attention - and the notoriety - was reserved for Rickards. Never before had such a high-ranking officer faced such serious and repugnant charges. It was his face that was plastered on the front pages and in the TV news bulletins. A big, tough cop, now cast as a big, tough thug.

The allegations were shocking. Rape. Sexual violation with a police baton. Indecent assault with a whisky bottle. Three cops were accused of behaving like animals.

Rickards had made many enemies during his sparkling career and, despite his strenuous denials, plenty of people -including fellow officers - seemed ready to believe he was guilty. Nicholas's assertion that her attempts to complain to police had been discouraged only added to the disquiet. It seemed Rickards had been tried and found guilty in the court of public opinion.

It did not help that a tangle of suppression orders meant details dribbled out slowly over the three years, leading a suspicious public -encouraged by what Rickards describes as biased media reports - to conclude crucial information was being withheld.

In the frenzy that built around the case, some of the suppression orders were broken on the internet and in mainstream media outlets, including the information that, seven months before the Nicholas trial, Schollum and Shipton had been jailed for raping a 20-year-old Mt Maunganui woman in 1989.

Until now, Rickards has kept his own counsel, concentrating on clearing his name. But now he says it's his turn to tell his story. In a candid series of interviews with the Sunday Star-Times, Rickards maintains his innocence, reveals regret about his sexual infidelity and the humiliation of being arrested at "my own police station". He believes Schollum and Shipton are innocent and should not be in jail.

He details his childhood (when he had to leave one school after hitting his teacher), his police career and the sleepless nights he sat up waiting to be arrested after Nicholas's explosive allegations were published.

He is damning of the Operation Austin police inquiry into the rape claims - one of the country's most expensive police investigations - saying it was a "shabby" investigation he would have been ashamed to lead. He says witnesses were coached, inconsistencies were overlooked, and that police were on a witch hunt to "get Clint Rickards".

He is equally damning of the media coverage of his case, describing it as gutter journalism. He said the media tried and convicted him before he even went to court. "The fact that they continued to publish defamatory, biased and in some cases totally incorrect information is a sad indictment on the integrity and objectivity of the media."

Rickards is a private, intense, proud man. The erosion of his mana and what he considers his betrayal by Police Commissioner Rob Robinson - who wanted Rickards to quit when the news broke - is just as devastating for him as the accusation he is a rapist. He is angry and almost bewildered that no-one believed him, that he and his family endured three years of "complete hell" before his version of events was finally accepted.

Rickards was born in Rotorua on January 20, 1961, to his Australian father John and Maori mother Lucy, the second of four children. His upbringing was the usual working-class mix of school, sport and mates. He was an average student who loved his rugby and league, but he and his mates started getting into trouble with the police.

"The boys I kicked about with were pretty rough and ready. And, like it is with most kids, it came down to boredom and daring your mates to do things. I was pinching milk bottle money and taking money from my parents' wallets... that escalated into breaking into the local factory and taking soft drinks."

He was also turning into a "bit of a bad bugger" at school, and was asked to leave intermediate after whacking his teacher, who was trying to stop him fighting with a classmate. Rickards' father decided he would benefit from a strict Catholic education, and he was sent to Rotorua's Edmund Rice College.

Two defining moments changed the direction of his life. The first was a "thrashing from my old man. It was the first and only time he hit me and it gave me a fright. My old lady was the disciplinarian... so I knew Dad was disappointed in me".

The second was a brush with the law. "That made me wake up to take ownership and realise that for every action there's a consequence. It brought home to me what I wanted to do in life. I could carry on what I was doing and never realise my potential, or I could take the education direction, which opens up a whole raft of opportunities."

He eventually took the education route, and trained as a police cadet in Trentham, north of Wellington, in 1979 before being stationed to Rotorua. His potential as an undercover cop was soon recognised and over three years he infiltrated drug and burglary rings in Kawerau, Invercargill, Christchurch, Wellington and Auckland. He proved so good at it he was awarded police's highest award, a gold merit badge, for his professionalism in the field.

Dangerous work, but he had no trouble fitting in. He was made for undercover duties. A tattooed barn-door of a man, after returning to uniform duties he was aware that the crime victims he was sent to help often found his appearance menacing.

"If I pulled up to a job and there was a distraught complainant, I'd hop out of the police car and they would look straight at my tattoos and I could see them thinking `holy hell'. Fair enough, I don't exactly look like a cop."

He got his first tattoo - a lion on his right shoulder - when he was 14. He and mate Steve McDowell (later an All Black and last week a witness for Rickards) were in Auckland. They both wanted one, but couldn't afford two. "So we pooled our money and tossed for it and I won."

He got more when he went undercover - including a cannabis plant on his left shoulder - but in recent years, his choices have become more meaningful. During Rickards' suspension, his close friend Gordon Toi, a renowned ta moko artist, tattooed his arms with traditional Maori works depicting his whakapapa, marae and his tumultuous life. He says they provide spiritual protection.

The undercover work ended - to his regret - because he was becoming overexposed to the criminal world. "I enjoyed the work, enjoyed the adrenaline rush it provided... you had to survive on your wits and I liked that. And I got some serious criminals off the streets."

Being undercover cost him his first serious love, but gave him his first long-term relationship.

"When I went undercover I was seeing a police officer in Rotorua. We were very serious and I probably would have married her... but I went undercover and from a relationship perspective it's not the best thing to do. Undercover work mixes you up. Things that are not priorities become priorities and vice versa."

He fell in love with a drug-dealer's girlfriend. After locking up her boyfriend, in the early 80s Rickards controversially brought the woman "out" from undercover with him (it is usual police practice that undercover operatives cut all ties with their criminal underworld contacts once they're out). Their relationship lasted about 10 years.

By late 1985 the couple had two children. Rickards was 24 and working in the Criminal Investigation Branch (CIB). Occasionally he had after-work beers with colleagues including Brad Shipton and Bob Schollum at the Rotorua police bar. According to Louise Nicholas, then an 18-year-old clerk with the Bank of New Zealand, this is where she met Shipton and Rickards; she already knew Schollum, a friend of her parents. And it was from there, she told the Auckland High Court, that their sexual encounters began.

But here is where their stories diverge.

Rickards told the court he and Nicholas twice had consensual sex. The first was vaginal intercourse, the second time she performed oral sex on him. He described them as happy occasions: "There was laughing and giggling." The first time Nicholas sat on his knee and kissed his ears. He said she was always willing and participated "fully and consensually"; had she not, he would have stopped.

Nicholas told the court she was raped six to 12 times over the course of a year. She said she was made to have intercourse and perform oral sex on the three men. She told them she didn't want to do it, but didn't fight back because she was intimidated by their physical size and the fact they were police officers.

The most gruelling part of her evidence was her allegation that after the three men raped her one day at a Rotorua flat, Shipton inserted a police baton into her vagina and then her anus while the other two watched. She said she bled for several days afterwards but did not go to the doctor or seek help from family, friends or the police.

All three men denied the incident ever happened.

In January 1988 Rickards and his family packed up and moved to Otahuhu, south Auckland, where he was promoted to a uniform sergeant.

"I realised I could stay there (Rotorua) and struggle on, be one of the boys and keep partying up a bit, or start taking stock of the fact that I had a young family and I could do what was best for them."

They left behind a ticking time bomb that would blow up some 20 years later.

Rickards busied himself with his career, and soon butted heads with superiors and staff over his style of policing. He recognised problems in Maori and youth offending rates and wanted to deal with them.

"It is clear that Maori are disproportionately highly represented in crime stats and to change that you have to change the way you police. It was an area I wanted to get into and I battled a lot within the organisation... it was hard for people to accept that I wanted to start establishing a relationship with Maori, and with youth, but it was common sense. The solutions to these problems can only be found from those it affects.

"As a Maori (he is of Tanui descent) I found it unacceptable that our crime rates are so high... as a Maori I've got some responsibility to right these statistics."

Rickards appointed iwi liaison officers and established programmes to dissuade youth from crime. Teachers told police children were turning up to school hungry and were playing up, so they'd be kicked out.

"These kids were then roaming the streets... thefts and burglaries increased. So we set up breakfast clubs to give children breakfast before they started school - the kids that were fed did not play up, so they stayed in school and we got a drop-off in crimes like petty thefts." Such moves got results - the crime rates dropped in Gisborne and Waikato when he was boss.

Rickards made his way up through the ranks (senior sergeant at Hawkes Bay, detective inspector and head of the CIB in Invercargill, detective inspector and rural area controller in Papakura, and district commander in Gisborne and then Waikato) eventually arriving at police HQ in Wellington as assistant commissioner, where others referred to him as the "commissioner's hatchet man". When under-performing police districts came to the commissioner's attention, it was Rickards he sent in to sort them out.

As Rickards' star was rising, the spectre of Nicholas was always in the background. Her accusations against Rickards, Schollum and Shipton were first aired in the early 1990s, during the trial of a former policeman Nicholas accused of indecently assaulting and having sex with her in the mid-1980s in Rotorua. The case went to trial three times - the first two were aborted -and the man, who has name suppression, was acquitted in the third. Rickards, Schollum and Shipton were called to give evidence for the prosecution at the third trial, and said, in a closed court session, that they had had consensual sex with Nicholas.

In 1995, there was a Police Complaints Authority investigation into allegations she was raped by the three men - no charges were laid. As Rickards saw it: "There was no evidence against me. A full police investigation had cleared me of any wrongdoing."

In 1999, anonymous letters insinuating Rickards was a sexual offender were circulated to police. The innuendo cost Rickards possible promotion to deputy commissioner in 2000, when Prime Minister Helen Clark vetoed his appointment. His case would go on to become hugely political, when, the day Nicholas went public in 2004, Clark ordered an inquiry into her allegations. A commission of inquiry into police culture followed. Rickards: "People in higher places wanted to make a scapegoat of me."

Cue January 2004. Rickards had arrived in Auckland, as boss of the region's 2500 police, when a contact tipped him off that a private investigator was trying to "rehash the Louise Nicholas story". He told Commissioner Rob Robinson and it was discovered Wellington's Dominion Post newspaper was set to publish Nicholas's rape allegations.

Rickards sought support from Robinson, a man who once described Rickards as "the best cop I've ever worked with", but Robinson moved quickly to distance the organisation from the trouble.

"I was basically told I was on my own, that these things had happened outside my role as a police officer, that he might have to make some decisions about me so needed to keep some distance. (Robinson) suggested I take some leave.

"I was like - hang on, she is saying I was a uniform cop on duty when it was supposed to have happened. The reason I was locked up was because I was a police officer. If I had been Joe Mongrel Mob this would never have been investigated because the complainant was so unreliable there would never have been a conviction.

"The man lost courage and that was the biggest disappointment for me. I backed that man 110%; I would have given my soul to that guy. I was totally loyal to him. I took a lot of shit for him.

"I thought he would have had the courage and moral fortitude to stand up to those who wanted my head on a platter, but he wiped his hands of me... the lack of support was devastating." The pair have not spoken since.

Several days before the Dominion Post published on January 31 2004, Robinson sent deputy commissioner Steve Long to meet Rickards. He suggested Rickards consider resigning. Rickards was gobsmacked: "What happened to innocent until proven guilty?" It seemed police national headquarters had written his professional obituary.

For months, Rickards would wake in the early hours of the morning and sit in the dark in his living room, waiting for police to "come crashing through the door and arrest me".

It was less dramatic when it finally happened in March 2005. He was "invited" to the Auckland central police station and after a two-hour interview he was taken to the police cells where he was photographed, fingerprinted, humiliated.

Many people were there to witness their boss's arrest. "A lot of people who never come down to the watch house suddenly found something to do down there.

"I was so ashamed that it had happened to me and my family. It was the lowest day of my life. It was just devastating. I had been a police officer for 25 years, I lock up the bad people...

"I'm not proud of my behaviour, but I've done nothing illegal. I did things I'm ashamed of, given I was in a relationship and had two young kids, but I'm no rapist.

"I've never used violence against a woman... a violent person does that sort of thing; that's a sadistic thing to do."

The most he is guilty of, he says, is infidelity. When he learnt Nicholas' allegations would be published, he rang his former partner to tell her he'd slept around on her.

She told him he was an arsehole. "But she also told me she knew I wouldn't do anything like that (rape). That was so comforting - she was a woman who out of anyone had an axe to grind."

His take on why he cheated on her: "In the 80s there were women who came to police bars to pick up officers. That happened. I was indifferent to it; it was just something that happened. I'm not the first and certainly won't be the last man who has been unfaithful to his partner. I sit back now and say was it right? No, it was not appropriate and I am ashamed.

"But I don't think our culture is any different now to back then. The difference is that in the 80s the focal point for a lot of police was the police bar, but that's not the case now -there's all sorts of cafes, bars and nightclubs that police go to."

Different venue, same result. His advice: "You need to be very wary of these types of relationships, not only in the sense it will impact on your own relationship, but it could have repercussions for your career in terms of being falsely accused. You need to be very careful and the over-arching principle should be don't do it."

Looking back at his behaviour in Rotorua, does he consider that policemen having group sex was an abuse of their power?

"I think that if you say that, it's degrading to women. We are talking about consensual sex - I could have been Joe IRD or Joe Fireman.

"To categorise women like that is unfair to women. It makes it sound like the women we had dealings with were bimbos. In the main they were intelligent women who knew right from wrong - we made consensual decisions."

Rickards is candid about the way he has treated the women in his life in the past, saying he has been a bit of "tomcat". He left a Rotorua officer for another woman, then slept around on her - with Louise Nicholas and others -until he left her for his current partner Tania Eden.

Rickards calls Eden his wife, though they have never married. They have been together about 15 years and have a blended family of five children - they brought two each into their relationship and had a daughter together.

"I'm not proud of some of the things I've done and I make no excuses for them. A lot of it was my fault."

And now? "I think I'm a big softie. I'm 20 stone and like a teddy bear... where it comes to my family I give into everything at the end of the day. I love them to bits."

After his arrest, Rickards buried himself in his law degree and the battle to clear his name, essentially becoming a detective for his defence team. "I'd go through old statements, court documents and anything else I could get my hands on... and start identifying discrepancies to chase up. It was a way to keep busy, to feel like I was doing something to help."

And even though he thought he would go to jail (and took a packed bag to court on the days the juries deliberated) - "when you battle the state there's a whole brigade with unlimited finances and resources and there was just us" - he says it was almost a relief to go to trial.

"Louise Nicholas had courted the media and sought sympathy for all those years... we were finally able to say to the jury hang on, there's another side to this, look what this woman has done."

Even so, the trial was "humiliating and the media pressure unrelenting. And I felt for Tania, my brother and my son sitting there every day at court... I was ashamed, some of the things that I did I'm not proud of and I have no excuses for them".

His family had prepared for the worst - including changing their daughter's school - in case Rickards went to jail. "We sat down early on to discuss the situation. My position was that this might not go our way - the reality was I could be found guilty and go to jail for a long time - and so we needed to manage some things."

Rickards also made a calculated decision to change his appearance for the Nicholas trial. At an earlier court appearance, much had been made of his intimidating size - he is 185cm tall and 125kg - and goatee beard. So come March 13 last year, he was clean shaven and had lost weight.

"John Haigh (his QC) is a staunch supporter of the judiciary and the justice system, but I'm not so sure. When I have to lose 20kg so I don't appear too menancing... should it be based on looks and how you appear... or on the evidence before you?

"But we went through those steps. I'd done power-lifting for a long time; I'm a big guy. And Tania told me I was a serious guy at the best of times... that I needed to chill out and knock off the weights. I didn't want to stop exercising, so I knocked off the heavy weights and monitored my diet. It wasn't something I necessarily agreed with, it was just something I thought I should do."

Still, his appearance on the first day of the Nicholas trial couldn't have been less discreet - Rickards decided to dress in full police uniform. He was castigated by top brass and spent the rest of the trial dressed in a suit.

He says: "I was proud to wear my uniform to court, proud to have been a police officer for 25 years. I was being criticised for being a police officer, the reason I was arrested was because I was a police officer, but I'm proud to be a police officer. The police is everything to me. I once worked 57 hours straight on a homicide and fell asleep interviewing a suspect..."

The Nicholas trial wore on for three weeks. As Rickards waited for the verdicts, he had a long time to ponder his fate.

"I kept thinking about what would happen to me in jail and how my family would cope. When Brad (Shipton) and Bob (Schollum) got to Mt Eden (jail) they nearly got killed. They were put in the general yard and they heard there was going to be fight in the yard to distract the guards, and while that was going on, those two were going to get dealt to.

"Sure enough, there was a fight in the yard and 20 to 30 inmates approached them ... but a prison officer at the top of the yard looked down and saw what was happening and put a stop to it.

"So all I could think about was where I was going and how I was going to be treated. I was under no illusions. I was a top-ranking officer, the criminal fraternity had no respect for me, I'd worked undercover and was being depicted as a monster. I would be the lowest of the low in there.

"All I could think about was that if this went wrong, I might be going to Mt Eden for at least 10 years for something I didn't do."

Relief seems too tiny a word to describe Rickards' reaction to the not guilty verdicts in the Nicholas case.

"Bob broke first, Brad was next... I'd given Bob my hanky but by the time it was down to the last few (not guilty verdicts) I needed my hanky back.

"They were vindication that what I'd said in court was the truth. I had said she was a liar... she was a liar. A jury presented with the evidence and the facts, not fiction, came to the right conclusion."

It wasn't to last. No sooner had the last "not guilty" been uttered, than the judge lifted suppression on the fact the three were facing further charges. Now the public knew he was accused of kidnapping and indecently assaulting a second woman.

So how did the second case come about? Rickards believes police went through Nicholas's evidence, and realised it contained major flaws. "The likelihood of a successful conviction was 50-50; they needed to tie the three of us together, so they went looking for someone else."

Police approached the second woman after discovering her name and telephone number in a police notebook belonging to Shipton. It was only then that she made her allegations, saying five police officers were present when she was taken screaming and struggling to a bedroom, handcuffed to a bed and indecently assaulted with a whisky bottle. She has never identified the other two men.

The Crown said the case was about degradation and humiliation, about "what these men could do and get away with because of who they were and who she was".

The circumstances in the second case are quite different to the Nicholas case. Rickards admitted consensual sex with Nicholas but says he didn't know the second woman and has never had sex with her. He says she has a history of offending (including dishonesty offences, cultivating cannabis, drink-driving, and disorderly behaviour) and has been "anti-police her whole life. Now she's got a chance to get back at the police and she's getting all this attention".

A lot was made of her credibility during this month's trial: there were many inconsistencies in her statements, and QC John Haigh was able to discredit her identification of Rickards. In the end, the jury took just under eight hours to decide he was not guilty.

Rickards said the verdicts were "a weight off my shoulders. I can finally have a decent sleep after three years".

Despite his acquittal in the Nicholas case, he did not believe he'd get a fair second trial. "The reality is that a lot of people know Brad and Bob are in jail and that taints me. The judge's call to lift suppression (on the second trial) astounded me, it was baffling."

Was he strong enough to go through another trial? "I had to be - I can't let liars prevail. It is very traumatic, but I have strong support from my whanau. And the thing is, I have not done these things. You can't be faulted if you tell the truth."

If he has nothing but contempt for Nicholas - "I've already said in court that she is a liar and I don't resile from that, she is evil and manipulative" - he is full of loathing for the Operation Austin investigating team.

"This was a vexatious, malicious inquiry. Here was a woman who had a history of false rape complaints and a propensity to lie and they were happy to believe her version of events.

"Not only that, but she changed her story many times - and every time she did or the investigating team saw a hole, they changed her statements to fix it up.

"She made over 17 statements to police and when you go through them and start pulling out her discrepancies you have to start questioning the direction taken by the investigating team. Where was the balance, why weren't the discrepancies followed through?

"I've been in the CIB 13 or 14 years and if some discrepancy pops up when you are interviewing someone you have to flesh it out, but they did not.

"They believed her from day one. If she had told them chocolate fish could swim the only question they would have asked her is if they were marshmallow or Caramello.

"The tactics they deployed, the overall lack of objectivity, not checking out her discrepancies, the lack of balance... it sent a pretty clear message of intent. They were out to get Clint Rickards."

He has complained to the Police Complaints Authority about the way his case was investigated - from the interception warrants on his telephone, the illegal search of his police office and personal property to the way he says the investigators were happy to change Nicholas's statements.

"It was an investigation I would have been ashamed and embarrassed to have led."

So why did Nicholas put herself through all that if it wasn't true? Rickards can't answer that - "I don't know what's inside her head" - but believes, given her history of rape complaints, it is her modus operandi, done for attention and revenge when she considers people wrong her.

"It is also non-acceptance of responsibility on her part for her actions when she was young. She can't accept the way she was and blames everyone else as being responsible."

Nicholas has at various times accused seven police officers of sexual crimes against her - some have been tried, but none have been convicted. She also admitted making up a rape complaint against a group of Maori youths.

"For people making these types of allegations which are untrue, they must have an appreciation of the hurt they cause, not just on you, but on your whole family... to carry on, to change their stories to create things is reprehensible. I have no respect or any feelings of empathy for them. They are cold, calculated people."

The last time Rickards spoke to Nicholas was in 1987, about a year after their last sexual encounter, when he had been called to deal with a noisy party near Rotorua.

"She was drunk as a skunk. She planted a kiss on me and I took a while to realise who she was. They weren't the actions of a person who had allegedly been raped by me. And that was the last time I saw her."

If he ran into her now, what would he say?

His anger is like a fire that ignites instantly and ferociously. "I would not speak to her, I would be physically sick... she would need to go away... the damage she has done to me personally and my family..." He shakes his head. "She would have to go away."

The case has strained his 15-year relationship with Eden. "I'd be lying if I said it hadn't been challenging. But from the outset she has believed me -her support has been unequivocal. She knows I would never do anything like that.

"We've had some heated discussions about a whole raft of things, but never about whether I did it. I know I've been a bastard to live with during the past three years, the smallest thing gains the biggest momentum, but she has been amazing."

Rickards is resentful that the three-year battle to clear his name has cost him more than $600,000 and therefore his family's financial security. He has borrowed heavily to fund his fight -and yes, he is aware people make the point that he is suspended on full pay. But it's not the $200,000 salary that has been reported - he says he earns $155,000.

SO IF Rickards does not get to don his uniform again will it be, as his QC John Haigh says, a waste of a brilliant career?

Three days after the Nicholas acquittals, Howard Broad was named New Zealand's new police commissioner. In another life it could have been Rickards. "I've never thought like that. I've certainly had aspirations. What I am disappointed about is that I was not able to challenge him and the other applicants on an even keel.

"But Howard Broad is the commissioner and I'm sure he'll do a good job. If I get back to the police and he's my boss, I have no issue with that."

And get back to the police is exactly what he wants. "I'd be back tomorrow if I could.

"I love policing, even though I've lost a bit of my passion for the organisation. But I've never criticised policing in general - my criticism is of the police officers in this investigation and how blinkered they were, but they are only a small part of that organisation.

"All I want to do is put my uniform on, walk back into my station and sit down at my desk... and get on with working to provide a decent police service to the public."

But after all this, does he really think that can happen?

"Why not? I haven't done anything wrong."