The Christchurch Civic Creche Case
	News Reports Index
	1992
	Radio New Zealand Friday October 2 1992 Nine to Noon Sonya Davies "Tip of the Iceberg" Presenter: Well, continuing the theme, I suppose of sex and the law. In Wellington, police are hoping the publicity about the discovery of a child porno ... pornography ring will bring forward any victims of the men at the centre of the enquiry. The head of the police sexual abuse team says they're concerned at the amount of child pornography discovered in the men's homes and their links with a paedophile ... paedophile network. Labour MP Sonya Davies thinks it's only the tip of the iceberg and she joins us on the line from Pencarrow now. Good morning, Sonya. Sonya Davies (MP for Pencarrow): Good morning. Presenter: What makes you say that? Davies: Well, because I have always suspected this and, in fact, I have had various people talking to me about it. I ... it's think incest once ... once these things become public ... then people feel able to discuss them and ... I mean, apart from my initial reaction of horror I'm very relieved that it has come out in the open, Presenter: There's also, though, ano ... another sort of natural reaction which is to ... to, I suppose, let rumour and innuendo run rife at times ... isn't there? Davies: Oh yes. yeah. Presenter: I mean how do you ... how can you be sure that the ... you're not hearing that? Davies: No. no. because ... I have spoken to police. I have spoken, just as recently as last week I had ... a man in his mid-thirties in ... came to see me who told me that he ... had unwittingly become involved when he was a small boy ... in ... in that type of activity. and how concerned he was that he ... you know, he believed that it was still going and then, when I was in America ... last year I met people who said they had actually seen New Zealand made child porn videos. Presenter: Good heavens. Davies: Yes, and unfortunately I was only in New York for two and a half days and you know what it's like trying to get in touch with people in that time, in a big city. Presenter: Have you passed that information onto the police here? Davies: ... Well ... Presenter: Through the Interpol network, you know? Davies: ... Yes I did tell ... I did tell the police officer who ... who I was discussing this with Presenter: Because one would ... one would hope that through Interpol the police would be able to follow that sort of thing ... through, wouldn't one? Davies: Well ... yes. well, I would hope so. but I mean, I ... I . . .I'm not even able to say the name of the people. It was at a function, you know and ... and I was actually talking about child pornography because I had been concerned about it for a long time. and ... a ... a man came up as he was ... who was talking to me and ... I ... there was something in the American papers about it ... it. ... the ... the incidence of it over there and I said well I ... I don't imagine, you know, that we've reached that point and this man said, "oh, you ought to know - I myself, in the course of ... you know, the campaign had seen a New Zealand child pornography film." and ... I said, well can I talk to you later on? but he sort of got caught up and so did I. Presenter: It's a little sad, isn't it? Davies: Yes. Presenter: Did ... this whole area of child abuse and child care, of course, is an emotive one ... Davies: Very. Presenter: You were very involved in the ... in the whole process of setting up creches and so on, generally in New Zealand. so, it must be a considerable concern to you ... Davies: Well, it ... Presenter: Obviously we can't comment too directly on the case in Christchurch but ... Davies: No. Well, I ... that would be improper. but ... but the fact is that, right from the very beginning in 1964, I with my colleagues, who founded the child care association, was absolutely adamant that quality ... child care was what we were looking for and ... I ... I still go for that. I think a good quality child care centre with dedicated ... staff ... who have absolutely impeccable attitudes to children and child care and rearing children ... is still a very good thing. ... and I'm quite devastated by what ... I've heard. Presenter: It also, of course, makes it very difficult for those genuine male teachers, child care people who ... want to be involved and ... and, in exactly the same way that women want to be involved in this whole area of child care because in a sense everybody gets tarred with the same brush, don't they? Davies: Well, I think that's the problem, and ... and I ... I ... I've always felt that we needed to have male workers in the childcare field and for a long time they wouldn't come because of the wr ... wretched pay and it's still not very good. But, the fact is that children - and often their solo children of solo parents, women parents, it's so good for them to have a male role-model and ... so I ... I think in all these things, as with incest, you start, you know, looking at ... at people. You see a man with a ... a little girl ... with his little daughter in a film or on television with his little daughter in bed with him and you think oh, why am I thinking this, you know? One wants to see men loving their children ... and ... and ... I think this is a stage we're going through; and I think one of the things we've got to do is not set ourselves up as being ultra-judgmental. We've got to find the causes. We've got to deal with it. Presenter: And, of course, there is the long-term suffering that ... that people from child abuse ... Davies: Oh yes ... Presenter: Isn't there? Davies: Well, this man was 35 who came to see me and he obviously still had it with him ... and I ... I think, you know, people and particularly children who've been sexually abused are very vulnerable and ... and I was horrified to find that one of the paedophiles had been giving counselling to a ... to sexually abused children. Now the Department of Social Welfare, of course, as Andy Kirkwan said this morning, can refuse to employ people who they have suspicions of or until they know about. but, you know ... look ... some counsellors are not employed by departments and there's no ... at present no legislative ability to deal with that situation. Presenter: I mean, that's a sort of buyer beware in a sense of the freemarket of counselling, isn't it?. Davies: Well, that's right and you know at present there's not enough skilled counsellors and parents who are desperate or abused young people who are desperate will go to any counsellor that they can afford. Presenter: And ... and ... and when they are desperate they ... they need help and they'll presumably get some help it's just that . . . the danger that they may just tip over into the next phase, I suppose? Davies: Yes. so, I think this is now ... and I think the pornography legislation is absolutely crucial. It's just got to be brought into the house as a high priority. Presenter: Is that? I mean ... you ... you're - with respect, in your last year in parliament. Is that what you'll be pushing ... putting your attention too? Davies: Oh yes. yes. I ... I'm planning to spend this whole of this next year trying to come to grips with the thing, trying to find causes and to ... to ... to suggest remedies. Presenter: Sonya Davies, thank you for joining us this morning. Sonya Davies, MP for Pencarrow.