|
|
The |
|
Interviewer (Mary): The
justice minister has turned down convicted child sex abuser Peter Ellis's
third bid for a pardon. Mr Ellis was released from prison last year after
serving more than 6 years of a 10 year sentence for abusing children in his
care at the Christchurch Civic Child Care Centre. The ministerial inquiry by
the former Chief Justice Sir Thomas Eichelbaum said that Mr Ellis has failed
to prove his convictions were unsafe, & justice minister Phil Goff says
he has now advised the Governor General that the application for a pardon be
declined. Mr Goff joins us now. Good evening. Phil Goff: Yes, good
evening, Interviewer: Sir
Thomas was to look at how the children were interviewed & consult
international experts. What did he say about that? Phil Goff: Well, 2
people were chosen who must be foremost amongst international experts. These are people - one from Interviewer: Because
one of the key criticisms of this was that what the children said was so
bizarre that it called into question everything else they'd said. Phil Goff: Well
Professor Graham Davies looks at that. He says that, from the research that
has been done internationally, such bizarre material can crop up in their
evidence along side telling and accurate testimony. And he makes the point
that the presence of bizarre elements is not in itself proof that the whole
of the child's testimony is tainted. Now what Sir Thomas says about that I
think is also right, the jury in its wisdom and the court process, rejected
evidence where it was of a bizarre nature and accepted only that evidence
that it regarded as reliable. But I think the thing that has to be remembered
in this is that, not only was there exhaustive depositions hearings going
through that evidence - a thousand pages of evidence. Not only was there
contested pre-trial applications - 39 hours of tapes. But the jury came to a
verdict which the judge who was one Interviewer: Yes, but
obviously Peter Ellis & his supporters still question it. Phil Goff: Well
that's true, but at a certain point, Mary, we've got to say - we've taken
this matter as far as we can. Literally millions of dollars have now been
spent on the trial process. As I say, you can't put a price on justice. But
at a certain point, when all of the evidence points in the one direction,
that is the evidence that was accepted by the court, that the convictions
were safe, you have to say the justice system, & indeed the government,
has gone as far as the system and the government can in trying to check that
these convictions were safe. We will not please everybody. Not everybody will
be convinced by this, but I think that the overwhelming majority of New
Zealanders will feel that enough has now gone into this process to be
confident that the convictions that were entered can be relied upon. Interviewer: thanks
for your time. That's the justice minister Phil Goff. Well Peter Ellis said he was too upset to
talk to Checkpoint this evening but Gaye Davidson, who was one of his
co-workers at the creche says that she's not surprised that his application
for a pardon has been turned down. Gaye Davidson: I'm
terribly disappointed in all that's happened. We've had so many doors shut in
our faces that one more didn't surprise me that much. Interviewer: on the
other hand you could say that he has had a pretty good go through the justice
system: 2 courts of appeals, a
ministerial inquiry. Gaye Davidson: There's a
lot of people are going to say that. But while he is not cleared of the
conviction, it's not enough, it's
never going to be enough until he and the women are out of the shadow of
being accused of child abuse. It's never enough when you're innocent and you
still being told you're guilty. Interviewer: Why do
you think that these inquiries and these appeals don't reach that conclusion?
Gaye Davidson: I
actually can't actually say on that - because they're coming at it from their
own angles and their own emotions. I don't know that they've been hearing all
the evidence. I mean, one of these experts saw the tapes of 6 children, so
she obviously didn't see all the evidence at all. Yet they're basing their
conclusion on the partial evidence that was put in front of them. Anyone that
sat through that whole trial without the need to believe in it would have
seen it was a farce. Interviewer: what do
you think then is the crucial point that these people are missing? Gaye Davidson: that
children can make up stories. That children can be fed the information from
their parents. That parents can be sick enough to want to get money from ACC
for child abuse of their children. There's a lot of issues involved that they
choose not to look at. Interviewer: but then
again you have some pretty high profile experienced people looking at the
case. Gaye Davidson: they
don't see all the evidence - where the social workers that were interviewing
the children kept saying it was beyond the realm of my experience when
questioned as to what the evidence was about. They were sitting in the court
giving evidence & when questioned on it said - I can't answer that it's
beyond the realm of my experience, beyond my expertise. Yet they were the
experts. Interviewer: what do
you think is going to happen now? What
do you think Peter Ellis is going to do? Gaye Davidson: I'm not
sure of the strategies planned after today. I think we were waiting to see
what happened here even though most of us believed that the outcome that's
come today is what we expected. I personally am putting a lot of faith in the
book coming out that Lynley Hood has been writing. She has been researching
it since day one. Interviewer: but do
you think that Peter Ellis is now come to the end of the line in terms of
appeals and so forth? Gaye Davidson: I most
certainly hope not. If you look at it, it could be like Arthur Allan Thomas.
He came to the end of the line a few times,
didn't he, and made it in the end. I keep hoping that that's what
happens for Peter. Interviewer: that's
Gaye Davidson former co-worker of Peter Ellis who has lost his third bid for
a pardon. |
