Allegations of Abuse in Institutions


St John of God - Marylands - Index


2006/2 - Moloney & Garchow; Federal Court Appeal

 




National Radio
Nine to Noon
April 24 2006

Extradition Block Criticised.
Maggie Barry interviews Scott Optican
Transcript


Maggie Barry

The decision by an Australian judge to block the extradition of two Catholic clergymen facing child sex charges in New Zealand is being criticised by law experts. Two former St John of God brothers face over 30 charges dating back to the 1970s of abusing boys at the Marylands Special School in Christchurch. The Australian Federal Court judge ruled the men wouldn't get a fair trial because the allegations are over 20 years old and the legal systems of the two countries differ on how to deal with historical cases.

Associate Professor of Law at Auckland University, Scott Optican believes that's wrong.


Scott Optican

Let's just look at the New Zealand law. I mean the idea that an Australian judge would be saying that a historical sexual abuse case can't be tried fundamentally fairly in NZ has to be incorrect.  New Zealand criminal justice system operates within a fully functioning democracy with full due process, protections for accused persons and a bill of rights, Plus New Zealand has had quite a bit of experience dealing with historical sexual abuse cases. There's lots of procedural mechanisms for ensuring that the trials are fair or if the trials cannot be fairly held because of their ages then the law requires that they be dismissed. So taking the long view of this I mean theres absolutely no doubt that the New Zealand criminal justice system can and does deal with historical sexual abuse trials fairly.


Maggie Barry

What do you think that this ruling means for future extradition cases? Is there a risk, for example that people may go to Australia to get around the justice system here?


Scott Optican

No I don’t think so.  I think this is probably an extraordinary kind of case and a bit of a one off. I haven't heard of other cases or extraditions being denied. I do think it sets a bad precedent for the practice of extradition between the two countries. And I hope it would be appealed and it would be reversed. As I've said, the New Zealand criminal justice system has experience dealing with these cases. If they can't be tried fairly NZ law require they be dismissed and New Zealand judges would themselves have a discretion to guide the jury as to how evidence in the case should be viewed and make sure the trial is held fairly. There's no reason to think that just because a case is old that it shouldn't be tried and there's no reason to think the NZ justice system isn't up to the challenge of ensuring that the defendants in historical sexual abuse cases are treated with the fairness and due process that they deserve.


Maggie Barry

Police and Crown prosecutors are still trying to decide whether to appeal or not. What would be the best grounds for appeal do you think?


Scott Optican

Well the best grounds for appeal would be simply that the judge incorrectly exercised discretion. I mean the Australian extradition statute like many extradition statutes would allow him to deny extradition if he thought that the defendants wouldn't get a fair trial in the requesting country or being treated in an unjust or oppressive manner, but as I've said there's no warrant for thinking that when it comes to NZ law. I mean a reason was given by the judge that the case might not be tried fairly because it's too old. That may be the case but NZ law would require it be dismissed if it couldn't be tried fairly. Our law's up to that challenge. And in terms of the judge suggesting it wouldn't be fair because the jurors wouldn't get a guaranteed instruction to view evidence of great age with great caution - The absence of that guarantee in NZ law doesn’t mean the trial would be any less fair and NZ judges have always had a discretion to tell jurors how to look at evidence, how to consider evidence to ensure that the trial is carried out with utmost fairness for the defendants in the case. So again, those would be the reasons for appealing - simply that the judge got it wrong and the fundamentals of the NZ system are fair - the defendants would not be treated in an unjust or oppressive manner



Maggie Barry

Justice Madgwick also said that Australian law recognises (quote): "that even truth may be achieved at too high a price". What do you make of that?


Scott Optican

So does New Zealand law. NZ law has said about these historical sexual abuse cases for years that if they can't be tried fairly they should be dismissed. There is a history of dismissing historical sexual abuse cases in New Zealand for lengthy delays that would make it impossible to have a fair trial. On the other hand many of these cases have been tried to conclusion and no one has ever suggested that the fundamentals of the system are unfair. Just because a case is old doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried. The point is whether the system itself has mechanisms in it to deal with those kinds of claims fairly and appropriately. New Zealand does, so the Australian judge is wrong to say that NZ doesn't. There is just no reason to think that the marginal difference in the fair treatment of historical sexual abuse cases in Australia and New Zealand is so great that extradition should be denied in a case like this.


Maggie Barry

Associate Professor of Law at Auckland University, Scott Optican